Thursday, July 1, 2010

Party on, Garth

"Raaar!"


I haven't written about Garth for a long time now. This is partly because I'm lazy, but also because he's just been boring. I really can't be arsed when he writes - again - about how climate change is made up by an international conspiracy of environmentalists and financiers.

Today's column bugged me though. Not (just) because he's back bagging the availability of abortions. It's the terrible excuses for arguments that he puts into his column, and that are therefore sanctioned, if not endorsed, by the New Zealand Herald. The column is even entitled, "Murder of innocents behind closed doors," as if Garth would prefer them to be filmed in front of a studio audience and put on Youtube.
While the compulsive-obsessive nico-nazis celebrate depriving our jailbirds of their perfectly legal tobacco, a gullible Minister of Corrections, Judith Collins, makes what will turn out to be an unsupportable rod for her own back. Meanwhile, a group of our so-called high-powered citizens get together to push for tougher laws on another perfectly legal product, booze.
Let me explain it, Garth. Whenever you make a law banning something, it's usually on a product that is legal - albeit often something that, like alcohol, is already restricted. If it weren't legal, you wouldn't have to ban it.

Smoking contributes to the deaths of a few thousand people a year; excessive alcohol consumption to a few thousand more.

But what about the more than 17,500 potential New Zealanders who were vacuumed into oblivion in abortion clinics round the country in the 2009 calendar year, most of them illegally under the provisions of the law supposedly administered by the Abortion Supervisory Committee?

Ok, neither the time nor place to get into a debate about whether the foetus is a person, or can meaningfully be described as 'a potential New Zealander' - but at least I'm willing to point to a debate. And don't worry, Garth: a lot of those women were probably immigrants.
Once again, all but a handful (2 per cent) of the 17,550 abortions performed last year were on the grounds of serious danger to the mental health of the mother - a ratio that has been constant since 1977 - which means there must be a hell of a lot of mentally unstable women in our land.
Well can you blame them? Look at the state of newspaper columnists.
In the United States, increasing use of ultrascan has led to big reductions in the number of abortions as women who seek counselling see the perfectly formed little human being moving in their wombs.
Yes, and it's been a massive, politically-motivated battle led by religious groups which is being fought out in the courts. In everyday parlance, we call it a 'guilt trip'. To be consistent, I'd like everyone who wants to eat bacon and eggs to have to watch someone slaughter their pig, and then grab the eggs from the battery cage.

Nevertheless, some of last year's abortion statistics are more chilling than others. For instance, last year nearly 6500 women had repeat abortions: 19 had their seventh (or more), 63 their sixth, 136 their fifth, 441 their fourth, 1364 their third and 4423 their second. What does that tell us about the effectiveness of "counselling"?

Depressingly, 3952 teenagers, and children as young as 11, had induced abortions last year. Of them, 592 had had a previous abortion and 67 girls were on to their third or more. What does that tell us about the effectiveness of "sex education"?

Nothing, Garth. It tells us nothing. That's just how statistics works. Now, what do rising teen pregnancy rates in conservative US states during the Bush Administration tell us about abstinence teaching?

But the most sinister aspect of all this is that the Abortion Supervisory Committee, which is supposed to administer the abortion law as passed by Parliament, continues to act illegally.

In a High Court judicial review of the committee in 2008, sought by Right to Life, Justice Forrest Miller said in his judgment: "In my opinion, the statistics and the committee's comments over the years ... do give rise to powerful misgivings about the lawfulness of many abortions. They tend to confirm [the] view that New Zealand essentially has abortion on request."

Yet nothing has changed. The alleged threat to the mental health of the mother remains the grounds for nearly all the abortions granted.

I'll help you out with this too, Garth. The reason that the government isn't doing anything about it is that it is working as intended. The only reason that women have to go through the ridiculous charade of applying for consideration under the mental duress condition is that it is a sop to grumpy old people like you. For better or worse there's not many of you left, and your cigarette, alcohol and pie-binging ways aren't helping matters. Well, not for you.

You can rail at the alleged illegality if you like, but, like it or not, the day that some court rules that these abortions are illegal is the day Parliament introduces legislation legalising abortion properly. This is because most people in New Zealand like the fact that abortions are available. I'm sorry but that's just how democracy (usually) works. Here's a list of countries you may be interested in moving to:
  • North Korea
  • China
  • Pakistan
  • Vatican City
  • United States of America

The members [of the Abortion Supervisory Committee] up for reappointment are Professor Dame Linda Holloway, of Dunedin, as chairwoman, Dr Rosemary Fenwicke, of Wellington, and the Rev Patricia Allen, of Christchurch.

There is growing pressure being put on Mr Power, by Right to Life and others, not to reappoint Dr Fenwicke on the grounds of conflict of interest. One of the duties of the committee is to supervise abortion certifying consultants, who are empowered to authorise the disposal of unborn children, yet Dr Fenwicke is herself a certifying consultant.

Oh, a conflict of interest. Sure, perhaps. Or, then again, maybe (and I really have no idea here) Dr Fenwicke is actually an expert on abortion and, given that it's not going to be banned before Judgement Day, she might have some valuable knowledge about best practice in providing them.

How about instead considering the conflict of interest of Rev Allen, whose title is a bit of a giveaway as to where her sympathies lie. I thought not. Frankly, I suspect Garth's main problem with the committee is that they're all women.

It is only to be hoped that Mr Power will have the guts and the nous to use this as an opportunity to clean up the whole illegal, closed-shop abortion industry.

God, you're right! Maybe I was wrong about you! Let's clean it up! Let's make sure that women don't have to be made to feel ashamed about their choice, let's make sure they're not literally told you are crazy, or at risk of it as a condition of getting an abortion.

Otherwise, the annual slaughter of the innocents will remain our most dreadful and heartbreaking tragedy and disgrace.

Oh. Sorry, my bad.

109 comments:

  1. James, welcome back

    Magnificent column. Keep up the good work.

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  2. I want to passionately kiss you for this post, James.

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  3. Thank you thank you thank you.

    (James, not GG)

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  4. Pathetic.

    You're seriously comparing the killing of an unborn child to peoples conscience in eating bacon and eggs? Really? Pigs are killed FOR FOOD. Most babies are aborted because they are an inconvenience.

    The column is even entitled, "Murder of innocents behind closed doors," as if Garth would prefer them to be filmed in front of a studio audience and put on Youtube.

    So, it's the old "it's-OK-as-long-as-I-can't-see-it" rationale. OK, well maybe people SHOULD see what happens behind closed doors. Go HERE (if you have the stomach for it) to watch an actual abortion, then come back to me and tell me it's OK.

    This is because most people in New Zealand like the fact that abortions are available. I'm sorry but that's just how democracy (usually) works

    I don't know about that. When was the last time there was a survey about it? And if the law is "working as intended" as you say, then that is even sicker. Just because something is law doesn't mean it is moral or just. The law says it's OK to sell cigarettes that kill people. Is that moral? I suppose you'd say yes.

    In everyday parlance, we call it a 'guilt trip'

    Should a woman feel guilty or ashamed about killing her unborn son or daughter? You're damn right she should. If we're talking about a moral situation, no one would be able to lay a "guilt trip" on anyone would they? Because there wouldn't be anything to feel guilty about.

    But there is.

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  5. ps...

    This is because most people in New Zealand like the fact that abortions are available.

    I know that as far as America goes, in the latest Gallup Poll, 50% of Americans think it is morally wrong, as opposed to 38% who say it is OK. Slightly more Americans call themselves "pro-life" than "pro-choice," 47% vs. 45%

    I wonder if it would be so different here?

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  6. I wonder if Maori are going to tackle the horrific child abuse problem? Up in smoke went the braincells. Get real New Zealand and save our kids!

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  7. Who invited the wingnuts?

    James, I will pray for you.

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  9. What then, I.M. Fletcher, should the man who fathered that child in (obviously) less-than-ideal circumstances feel? What if he is the woman's rapist (which for an 11-year-old girl is almost certainly true--unless the "man" is an 11 year old boy and they agreed to the sex)?

    Oh wait, I forgot, children are ladybusiness, and not of any concern to the men, unless they happen to be the unborn kind that for whatever reason are standing between a woman and her right to bodily sovereignty, and then, dammit she got herself pregnant anyway so she can bear the consequences.

    Thanks for writing this post, James, it's a good one.

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  10. @Fletcher
    Go HERE (if you have the stomach for it) to watch an actual abortion, then come back to me and tell me it's OK.


    It's OK.
    Oh wait, sorry - your entire point hinged on the fact that nobody could watch that and still find it justifiable. Maybe I'm "a monster" and that's why I have no problem with hunks of flesh being removed from a body. That's all the foetus is.
    If you believe that it has an immortal spark of life that needs to be respected, then respect the fact that God gave people the ability to choose and let them use that gift as they see fit.

    Abortion has been with us as long as civilization has, and whenever/whereever it's illegal women still choose to go through with it, often having severe damage or death inflicted on them in the process.

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  11. Oh touched a nerve did I Redbaiter? Has nobody told you you're awesome lately? What a shame.

    If you like Fletch I can send you to some links showing photos of women who have died from illegal abortions?

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  13. Redbaiter, I wouldn't know the difference if someone had chosen not to have me. I might know if someone had had me against their better judgement, though--something tells me that all other things being equal having a mother who was happy to be pregnant with me and wanted me very much was probably in my best interests.

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  14. " was probably in my best interests "

    Pure speculation. It might have been better for all if you had been flushed down the sewer or whatever happens to those embryos. How would you know? ..and you sure as hell wouldn't give a damn about if it had happened.

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  15. Must be a quiet night in Tauranga.

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  16. "walk around dragging your knuckles and thinking and writing in clichés."

    I canna contain the irony any longer, captain!

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  18. Oh irony, the Progressive's favourite word, even though 99% of them, indoctrinated in the left's public schools, don't even know what it means.

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  19. You're right, technically it's just poetic that someone is daft enough to accuse someone of being a progressive spouting cliche's while using a cliche to suggest they're a caveman.

    It's also only poetic that I was educated in a private, Christian, school.

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  21. "It's also only poetic that I was educated in a private, Christian, school."

    Its probably more a lie than "poetic". (another misused word Mike)

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  22. Yeah, Red. I just say nothing using fewer words than you.

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  23. "I just say nothing"

    Yep, three times in a row. Still, you're getting some attention, and that's the main thing right??

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  24. Rusty has a thin brain that never sleeps.

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  25. Indeed, Red, indeed. Oops there I go again.

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  27. Different views are fine - this is a moral debate and morality is subjective. But the venomous spew that these comments have turned into might have the result of turning people away from the issue altogether. That isn't a good thing.

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  29. This comment thread is making me mentally unwell and it should be aborted.

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  31. Wow Red, you're exceeding expectations tonight.

    Abortion is one of those topics where it's pretty hard for those who care passionately to agree to disagree.

    Sorry you are having to put up with the trolls James, there seem to have been a lot of people on the anti-abortion side going from 0 to 100 in 2seconds in the last week or so, not sure why things are so inflamed just now.

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  33. "purely because they annoy you."

    How about insulting people? "moron"

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  34. @placebogirl, that's a copout. You pro-abortionists love to bring up the 'little-girl-raped' when in reality that is very rare. How many raped 11 year old girls in NZ are having abortions? Most will be women who have got pregnant by accident and want to get rid of their baby because it isn't convenient.

    As far as "body sovereignty" (there's a feminist expression if I ever heard one :), it isn't your body we talking about anymore - it's that of your son or daughter - and they should have their own right to live.

    @Mike, it doesn't matter to me what age the "hunk of flesh" is. If you left it alone and didn't interfere it would become your son or daughter. Does it matter where along the timeline of it's life you kill it? 1 day old, or 10 years old, or 1 week inside the womb, it's the same thing - you're ending a life.

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  35. Great post, James. You know you've hit the nail on the head when all the nutjobs and trolls turn up to attack you.

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  36. Holy crap. Didn't expect that to happen. Thanks for coming, guys, but I'll be deleting abusive posts.

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  37. Turns out all the actual abusive posts were the legendary Redbaiter. Go figure.

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  38. Also, I wasn't trying to bring up the moral issue at all, although I suppose it was inevitable. My point was that any rational person, whether they are for or against the availability of abortion, should hope for published debate that's a lot better IN TERMS OF ARGUMENTS than what is spouted by Garth.

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  39. Garth just wants to go back to the Good Old Days when women were ashamed of getting pregnant and had their secret, illegal and dangerous abortions quietly. So there were no statistics to confuse him.

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  40. See what happens when you fail to do a post about dogs?

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  42. James, I didn't think he argued too badly, but you're right - abortion, in the end, always comes down to a moral argument. It just astounds me how a great many people are against, for instance, the death penalty, and yet the lives of children are being ended every day.


    When there are so many deaths it kind of becomes commonplace and unnoticeable.

    Calvin Miller once wrote -

    "It's strange that Spartacus forgot
    to tell his brothers in rebellion
    that they would all be crucified.
    When there are too many crosses
    there are none.
    A drop of blood is ghastly.
    A sea of blood accepted.
    We weep above a single dying beast
    but whistle past a slaughterhouse"


    @gazzaj, that is the thing... in the "good old days" women were ashamed of getting pregnant because usually it involved some clandestine affair or adultery. They were rightly ashamed, in a time when sex was saved for marriage and there were many fewer abortions. Nowadays there is no such thing as shame or embarrassment. Morals have fallen so low that a woman doesn't have to be married to have sex; in fact, she doesn't even have to know the guy for more than five minutes. We want all the pleasure and none of the responsibility.

    That is the tragedy. How many abortions do you think there would be if men and women didn't have sex until there were married? Or at the least, committed relationships.

    In the end, abortion is the result of failed contraception or is used as a contraception itself. What is comes down to is that abortion is all about being selfish; instead of nurturing the life you and someone else have created, you instead decide to destroy it.

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  43. I found it interesting and slightly offensive that comments were not activated for Garth's column this week. Garth will have his say on abortion, and there will be no debate!

    Obviously the Herald was anticipating a response similar to what happened here, but I really think they shouldn't be picking and choosing what topics are up for discussion. And if they are really that frightened of the consequences of starting the conversation, maybe they should suggest to Garth that he write about something more appropriate to their publication. Like pies!

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  44. The choice to abort lies with the mother. It is her god-given right, her will, that even god will not transgress.

    Fletcher, don't talk of moral arguments and then set yourself higher than your own god. That would be blasphemey.

    In the bible it talks of women aborting in times of war and famine and uncertainty - where bringing a life into the world would be irresponsible. The child uses a mother's body to grow. Once born, the child is fed by her body. It cannot exist without the mother or simlar surrogate and does not have moral authority over the mother.

    And don't spread around your own self-loathing dressed as religious law and proclaim those who chose to abort should experience guilt. Free your self of your shame. Mothers using their god given choice need not be bothered by you.

    Guilt is a misunderstanding of personal power. Consider options, makes choices, grieve loses and grow, but do not harbour guilt. Guilt is a prison of our own making that brings no good to anyone. Jesus came to set people free, not condemn.

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  45. @Fletcher, eating bacon ends a life too - what is the inherent moral difference between those lives?

    Why do you weep for the single 'beast' in the womb and not those in the slaughterhouse?

    Of course, you say, there's a difference! Similarly pro-choice people find a difference between murdering a foetus and murdering a criminal.

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  46. "Morals have fallen so low that a woman doesn't have to be married to have sex; in fact, she doesn't even have to know the guy for more than five minutes."

    Sluts! Everywhere!

    Do men have to be virgins when they marry or is it just the women Fletch?

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  47. Fletch, your contempt for women is really something else. Our bodies don't belong to us? Really?

    "in the "good old days" women were ashamed of getting pregnant because usually it involved some clandestine affair or adultery."

    Ah, another one of those people who yearn for the "good old days", where women were kept in ignorance about birth control and what constituted sexual agency - the right to say no to pressured sexual advances. Abortions were "usually" from "even more slut shamier" origins? I think you really need to check in with a few generations of women to understand the pressure to have sex from men who thought they ruled everything - the workplace, the home, and a woman's right to sex.

    I believe that if you checked in with women who had abortions in the "good old days", they'd be your fairly normal ladies - your mother, your grandmother, your aunty - who felt the double bind of pressure and shame. Pressure to have sex with a potential mate, or not be a useful person in the relationship. And pressure to have the abortion and carry ALL the shame so that the man didn't have to deal with the consequences of his roving penis.

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  48. @I.M Fletcher
    Despite the fact that I don't care if a woman has sex with someone she doesn't know providing she's making a conscious choice, I actually think quite a few women in committed relationships (or marriages) have terminations. We don't collect that data because it doesn't matter.

    But just to prove a point, 2 women in my family have terminated their fourth pregnancies. They'd both been married for at least 7 years.

    My own experiences in the clinic also suggest that is the case, seeing among those in the waiting room a couple of approx 40 years of age sitting alongside the rest of us. I can't say whether they were married or not, but were at least somewhat committed to each other based on their body language.

    Meh. I don't know why I'm bothering with details when I just believe abortions should be available to those who want them. The end.

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  49. @Fletch

    Morals have fallen so low that a woman doesn't have to be married to have sex; in fact, she doesn't even have to know the guy for more than five minutes.

    You know that nobody under the age of 40 has ever thought of casual premarital sex as "immoral", right?

    What is comes down to is that abortion is all about being selfish; instead of nurturing the life you and someone else have created, you instead decide to destroy it.

    Ok, so you believe that a fetus is a human life, from the moment of conception or whenever, and so abortion is murder. I respect your opinion, and I totally see where you're coming from, but I and a lot of other people don't agree with you.

    Can you respect that? And let women come to terms with their decision based on their own beliefs? And deal with the consequences themselves?

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  50. Awesome post james! I was just wondering where all the commenters had gone to and what a treat for a friday afternoon!

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  51. Censorship and in the wider view fascism. Man you socialists are such ignorant fascist bastards.

    To think my father and my grandfather fought for freedom, and now we have uneducated little Nazi bastards right amongst us who are so ignorant of history they do not even know what they are.

    You censor my posts on the grounds that they are "offensive" but you will never acknowledge the fact that your ideas are far more offensive than mere epithets that you might be insulted by.

    You apply the term "offensive", but only in the one direction. If you applied it objectively, you'd censor yourself much more than you censored anyone who opposed your evil ideas.

    Knuckle dragging fascist monsters.

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  52. Just curious, this is a direct question to Redbaiter and I.M. Fletcher, are you a vegetarian?

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  53. The over use of "awesome" on this forum sums up the intellectual barrenness of NZ society so perfectly.

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  54. That's an awesome point, Red.

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  55. are fascists and socialists not polar opposites? That redbaiter must be pretty old if his dad and grandad fought for freedom ... WWI and WWII?? or is he talking about the freedom of oil (GW1) perhaps?

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  56. "are fascists and socialists not polar opposites?"

    Wow, what to do with such ignorance?

    Tell you what Robert- why don't you tell me what you reckon fascism is and why it doesn't apply to a political system like socialism, that is always going to be conditional upon government controlling so much, *even the way you all think*, as is shown by such lame sameness of viewpoint as is demonstrated in the comments on this site.

    Do you ever ever ask yourself why you all think and speak the same??

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  58. fascist: a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.

    source - dictionary.com


    Do I hear a touche perhaps?

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  59. "Do I hear a touche perhaps? "

    I know what I hear. A sad ignorant indoctrinated half educated socialist minion with veneer thin political perceptions that were force fed to him in order to keep him immersed under the socialist tide as long as possible.

    What's it like to be an ignorant malleable and gullible fool nuzzling up to power obsessed fascists?

    The saddest part of all is you'll probably never awaken.

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  61. What's it like to be an ignorant malleable and gullible fool nuzzling up to power obsessed fascists?"

    I've never met you so I wouldn't know.

    Buy a dictionary.

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  62. "power obsessed fascists" - what like men and religious zealots who force feed an ignorant and medieval doctrine on women, violating their freedom to do what they want with their own bodies?

    Come on Redbaiter I'm baiting you. What's it like to be a hypocrite?

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  64. I have a lot of free time to research such things but for anyone who is interested, this Redbaiter character is some kind of weird right wing narcissist. He has quite a footprint on the blogsphere and is worth the google if you really have nothing else to do.

    It seems that his goal is to try and convince political and ideological fence sitters that a more conservative, limited government philosophy should be adopted. While there are valid arguments for this stance, Redbaiter seems to think that the undecided masses will be most swayed by "I say you're a c#!& so you must be a communist. &*%^ off and die... vote ACT". If a valid argument is brought against him he responds with the strongest profanity he can get away with.

    How did a satirical look at a newspaper opinion piece end up with ETH readers being labelled as Nazi Commies. There are liberal pro-lifers and conservative pro-choicers ... its not even the same argument...

    Needless to say, unless this is your cup of tea, lets hope this thread is done and Redbaiter doesn't poke around here too much in the future.

    It is a shame though, some of James' best articles are on controversial topics but they get railroaded by fanatics.

    I am looking forward to the next one though and hopefully it comes before I get a real job.

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  65. Agreed, Robert. In fact, here's Red in his own words, from a recent post over at nzconservative.

    I read it so you guys didn't have to, but if you're curious, here's the link to the comment thread (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=38893560&postID=5220273523177304604&isPopup=true)

    "Can I try to explain two things-

    1) The center has to be pulled to the right. It won't happen unless the right wing spectrum is stretched further than what it is today.

    All that has happened over the last few decades is that the door has been shut firmly on political discussion that extends further than that point on the spectrum that the left approve of. And they keep chipping away even at that point, continuing to draw the center further and further left. This strategy has to be countered and the center has to start moving right instead of left.

    If you look at those who draw the most hate from the left, it is always those who threaten to alter this midpoint by expressing views that might move it right.

    I do not care what people might say about me, for my strategy has always been the same- seeking to draw the center further to the right.

    2) The profanity too is part of my strategy. They expect a Conservative to be a Conservative. Well mannered, polite, reticent. They see us as soft targets. The Redbaiter persona, with its full on approach decorated with passion and profanities, throws them completely off balance.

    I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I do not expect everyone to be/ behave like myself on the blogosphere, but it is essential that there is a viewpoint out there expressed in the way I express it, or else we'll all just follow their directions on how to behave and shape ourselves into that mold and they'll win the next few decdes too.

    There has to be a complete change of direction. It will not happen while we let the left frame the debate, set the rules, and control the dialogue.

    We need to break free of the PC prison, and let them know in no uncertain terms just how offensive we find their ideas.

    I repeat, they need to be made to understand just how offensive their ideas are to people who do not buy into socialism. Many of them have no idea on this. Do not know they are being offensive. And they do not know it because we have never complained enough."


    And later on in the same comment thread:

    "Also, one more thing-

    I am frequently talking past those whom I might be in a debate with. There are the blog debaters, but there are also many who are just readers.

    Often it is more important to get fresh ideas, implant new perspectives and get people (the readers as well as the debaters) thinking differently than it is to win any particular argument.

    It is why I often appear repetitive. There are always fresh readers, and although older patrons of the blogosphere might have heard a particular viewpoint again and again, there are always going to be people out there who haven't heard it.

    It is all about getting ideas out there, and extending the political spectrum in a direction that has for a long time been a no-go area."


    Having read all that (especially point 2, but also that last quote,) it's clear that none of his posts are ever worth responding to (other than with silence, but preferably derision and mockery) simply because he's not trying to engage or persuade - he's just spouting evocative propaganda with the aim of making people behave like him.

    I personally can't behave like him, not because I'm of a particular political persuasion, but simply because I'm not a complete cunt.

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  66. Quite stoked you did the digging Rusty. Nice work.

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  67. " none of his posts are ever worth responding to (other than with silence, but preferably derision and mockery) "

    Alinsky tactic #5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments.”

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  68. I think there's something in Alinsky for everyone, Red.

    Especially, in your case, Tactic Number 7 - "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag"

    Yawn!

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  69. Notice how my posts have been deleted as 'abusive', but if you have the same political views as the blog owner, you can call people cunts and not get deleted?

    You see do you readers?

    These are leftists, and they dare wonder why we cannot trust them or respect them.

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  70. Funny, I fully expected it to be deleted too. I'm just glad other people got the opportunity to read it in full to better understand your tactics, and to now laugh at your spluttering cries of 'unfair, referee!'

    Why hasn't it been deleted - buggered if I know. Do you think there's a conspiracy? What does Alinsky say about that?

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  71. "vote ACT"

    So lame.

    First I am telling people to vote for the liberal party ACT, but later I'm a Conservative.

    You need to wisen up fool. I wouldn't be doing both. That you think I might be is another indicator of the sad uniformity and narrowness of the political situation in NZ.

    Not often in history have people voted themselves into one party tyranny and totalitarianism.

    More often, they have died trying to prevent such an outcome.

    Do you ever think that something might have been done to you shape your political thinking? Make it so limited in its perspective. Something you did not know was being done?

    Do you know that North Korean school children sing songs of praise to the Generals who oppress them?

    Could anything similar, but more sophisticated in technique, have been done to you??

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  72. Mike Godwin's on the phone, Red. He wants his law back.

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  73. Fuck off Rusty, leg humping and tail wagging like some belly crawling little poodle.

    Like all the other left wing compulsive obsessives, you just have to have your Redbaiter fix.

    Happy now?

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  74. Remember your quote, Red?

    "The profanity too is part of my strategy. They expect a Conservative to be a Conservative. Well mannered, polite, reticent. They see us as soft targets. The Redbaiter persona, with its full on approach decorated with passion and profanities, throws them completely off balance."

    I'm off balance because I am laughing so hard at you.

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  75. "I am laughing so hard"

    Careful, you'll take away the censor's "offensive" rationale.

    Then he'd have to come up with another reason for deleting posts he disagrees with.

    Leaving aside the common truth that if someone is so desperate to convince another commenter they're laughing, it usually means they're crying.

    You pathetic vapid little wank.

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  76. Oops, completely knocked off balance again there, Red. The old ones are the best, eh?

    Anyway, enough of the schoolyard japery. Been a pleasure as always, my friend - and I think I know you well enough to call you a friend. A very close friend indeed.

    Take care, mate xxx

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  77. If "Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon" Redbaiter, you should probably take more care not to point it at yourself so often in future.

    "First I am telling people to vote for the liberal party ACT, but later I'm a Conservative.

    You need to wisen up fool. I wouldn't be doing both. That you think I might be is another indicator of the sad uniformity and narrowness of the political situation in NZ."

    Maybe its just an indicator that you need to structure your arguments more coherently. I don't think even you know what you're going on about half the time.

    "[Go away] Rusty, leg humping and tail wagging like some belly crawling little poodle."

    Rusty is clearly some kind of guinea-pig or hamster - he has a photo.

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  78. "Maybe its just an indicator that you need to structure your arguments more coherently."

    What?? You don't know the difference between a Liberal and a Conservative you probably don't know that marmalade goes on toast. Go read a fucking book for fuck's sake.

    Try "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg.

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  79. Again. Hilarious.

    "Go read a book" - I love this. It's like you're doing the straw man doggy style so you can both watch Fox news.

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  80. re: "liberal Fascism"

    To say that fascism has its origins in left wing ideology is one thing, perfectly valid, but to equate them is entirely confused.

    Any ideology taken too far can be dangerous - look at globalism, neo-conservatism, fascism, USA's interventions in South America, the derivatives market, factory farming, breast augmentation, radical Islam. The problem is the "too far" part, not the basic tenets or the practical personal expression of whatever ideology you're talking about.

    You're arguing that the foetus is as developed as the criminal it might grow into.

    You and your tactical potty mouth go too far.

    (Game's up by the way - you've already explained your "extremity." No need to continue running with it.)

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  81. You can take the man out of Tauranga ... but ... nevermind.

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  82. BTW,I honestly thought RB was an ACT supporter, I mean they are about as right as NZ's political representation gets and he is trying to move the mean.


    go figure.

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  83. Oh well, as Rusty has found out, Redbaiter has openly admitted he's a propagandist rather than someone willing to honestly debate any issue, so game over as far as I'm concerned.

    Why he doesn't just get his own blog I don't know - Whaleoil has proved there is a market for tiresome profanity-laden ranting so surely redbaiter.blogspot.com (or similar) would be a logical next step.

    It doesn't make for good propaganda, though, sitting alone on your blog and without the excuse of 'censorship' when your views are ignored. Much more fun to spread it all over other people's blogs with added bile and cursing, so you can whinge about censorship and kid yourself you're a conservative Internet superhero.

    Game over, not playing.

    What were we talking about again?

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  84. And snakes and ex-nuns, oh my.

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  85. "It's like you're doing the straw man doggy style so you can both watch Fox news." - hahahaha utterly brilliant.

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  86. "What were we talking about again?"

    Nobody is talking. This is a read write facility.

    Interesting that as a group, you guys put so much effort into attempting to ridicule and discredit your critics.

    Got a clue about the origins of that strategy?

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  87. "the origins of that strategy?" - ooh I know. Is it Red-baiting? 1st answer on a Google search?

    "spread it all over other people's blogs with added bile and cursing, so you can whinge about censorship and kid yourself you're a conservative Internet superhero." - I love this.

    Funny thing - the idea that this vitriol somehow is appealing to people, and will "draw the center further to the right" serves to do the exact opposite. Fletch abandoned you a long time ago.

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  88. This guy is probably still with you though:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkbj_S3etY

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  89. You still hanging around like a bad smell, Red?

    Red thinks our ridicule of him is a conspiracy. He honestly thinks that we meet behind closed doors and plot against him and his kind. What a twat.

    I am a believer in Occam's Razor, so rather than conspiracies, I prefer to think our ridicule of him is just a natural human reaction to something that is ridiculous.

    Indeed, even the people at nzconservative have reacted negatively to Red's approach. In fact they think he's as much of a piece of shit as I do.

    So perhaps there's hope for us all yet.

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  90. Knew you'd be back Rusty. You cry, rage, run out the door, and then you come crawling back. No pride. Just no pride or self respect at all. You're (plural) always the same.

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  91. Who is this trolling dumbfuck who can't even make a link?

    He actually thinks I'm going to cut and paste the address just so I can see some dumbshit video he thinks is smart??

    Fuck off loser. I'm not curious, and even if I was, I wouldn't do it.

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  92. I've got to say that link was excellent. Has some merit too.

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  93. Well isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Our own little narcissistic friend RB has been over at NZ conservative massaging his ego by telling it like it is.

    I think he has mistaken what I interpret as the idle nonchalance of this site as rabid socialist vigour. I mean this isn't exactly speakers corner.

    Redbaiter said...
    Just thought you guys might like to know I'm still amusing myself over at Editing Teh Herald. (you remember the pro abortion post)

    I've apparently recruited a whole new bunch of Redbaiter obsessives.

    Quite fascinating to observe how people can project such a huge degree of political ignorance and self congratulatory smugness at the same time.

    Sad too to see such sameness of political perspective. They know nothing outside what the Progressives have inculcated in them.

    This site frequently features.
    8:59 PM, July 09, 2010

    "I wonder how many of them could whack a chook's head off with the tomahawk"

    First you'd have to tell them what a tomahawk was.

    There are a couple of those nasty little low IQ narcissists there who just try so hard to draw some attention to themselves.

    You know when you go to the supermarket and there's some horrible little brat there who constantly screams for mother's attention?

    Its like they've grown up and now write comments on blogs as a substitute for the screaming they used to do in supermarkets.
    9:37 PM, July 09, 2010


    Redbaiter, your mother isn't coming either.

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  94. Oh Red, stop obsessing over me!

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  95. Reading a very good book at the moment.

    Obama Zombies: How the Liberal Machine Brainwashed My Generation by Jason Mattera.

    How many of you guys have read that book and what do you think of it?

    Maybe you can cease obsessing over what I write elsewhere on the net long enough to provide an opinion.

    Here's what one reader wrote on Amazon-

    In Obama Zombies, Jason Mattera gives an informative, fact-filled, and often hilarious account of the highly sophisticated, highly integrated, new media marketing effort conducted by the Obama campaign during the 2008 election season and beyond to galvanize 18 - 29 year old voters, turning them into "Obama Zombies" - young Americans attracted to Obama by his "hip" style and his empty-headed "Hope - Change - Yes, We Can" rhetoric.

    It is truly impressive (and a bit scary) to learn how effectively Team Obama utilized every facet of new media - the internet, cable T.V., and cell phone technology - to attract and organize young voters via Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and text messaging. By working with the founders and owners of several of these new internet giants (such as Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes) the Obama campaign was able to leave the McCain campaign in the dust of its young voter outreach.

    Mattera makes no effort to hide his disdain of the many college-age Americans who lack a basic knowledge of American history and government and whose political discourse is banal, vulgar, and ignorant.

    He advertizes and argues for his conservative outlook throughout the book. So, no one should complain that the author is posing as an objective, non-partisan observer, nor even that he is just another conservative political hack.

    "Obama Zombies" is educational not only for anyone involved in politics, but also for business people interested in learning how to effectively utilize new media for marketing products and services.

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  96. Oh, by the way, just to assist you in your stalking and monitoring activities, I frequently post at Crusader Rabbit too. (NZ's best blog)

    And you'd already know about Kiwiblog no doubt.

    Free Republic is another site I enjoy. See if you can detect my posting name there.

    You guys would have made such excellent little Blue Caps in Stalin's time.

    Stalin??

    Oh, you wouldn't know about him. He's just an old commie from way back who was one of the first to employ the strategies you guys emulate today. Killed about 20 million of his own citizens who disagreed with him. (Served then right didn't it?)

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  97. re: "Who is this trolling dumbfuck who can't even make a link?"

    Finally a bite. Ad Hominem, but I wasn't expecting much. If you're genuinely interested, this is me:

    short attention span

    I am actually smarter than you. Would you like to compare IQs or degrees (plural)? (See what I did there?) Do you have a ruler? I can get out my wilson phillips if you like?

    "Read a book?" Like the fisher-price my first political philosophy crap you're trying to peddle? Weak arguments don't generally wash on smart people. With your internet crusade you seem to think that NZers are as dumb as you are. If you cherry pick you can convince a moron anything. I see you're working at the cherry picking, but in a forum like this people can point out that you're cherry-picking and the whole thing kinda falls flat.

    From Jason Mattera's site: "No word yet from the Pulitzer committee on the status of Rush’s nomination."
    This is comedy gold.

    Go read a journal.

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  98. "I am actually smarter than you."

    You're an insipid self obsessed attention seeking bore.

    Fuck off.

    Anyone on this hopelessly Progressive site with something interesting or informative to offer? Even witty would be acceptable.

    I mean if all you've got is this whiney narcissistic shit such as this immature dick whacking fuckwit went to the trouble of writing and posting directly above, we might as well forget it.

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  99. re: "I am actually smarter than you"

    I was actually just paraphrasing your own argument back at you. But I don't think you noticed that.

    re: interesting/informative/witty
    It's all there, but you disregard anything that doesn't fit with your narrow world view. You don't think there's anything interesting in the overlap between the "pro-life" movement and vegetarianism? Did you like the soccer guy? That's how the rational world sees you.

    I also picked up that you're playing the "I have to get the last word" game. I can play this all day/week/year.

    "We might as well forget it."

    Cool thanks for playing.

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  100. Gosh,for a while there I made the mistake of trying to make sense out of the above.
    *shakes head violently*
    What was I thinking?
    This was an awesome post James, thank you.
    Interestingly this is the second person Ive heard blathering about "left wing facists" which seemed to me as silly as "Militant pacifists."
    And when did ACT become left wing?
    And when did we start wasting time on these muppets?
    As for culling posts, I think that as long as the language is not overly abusive you can say what you like right? And if you find the topic itself so offensive that you want to spew bile on all those involved well gee... DONT READ IT!

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